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	<title>Comments for GreensBlog - the official blog of the Australian Greens Senators</title>
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	<link>http://greensblog.org</link>
	<description>Blogging Greens issues, policies and politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 07:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on The climate Budget betrayal by Mora Main</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/15/the-climate-budget-betrayal/#comment-5168</link>
		<dc:creator>Mora Main</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 06:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=370#comment-5168</guid>
		<description>the wealthy tend to consume most energy - therefore it makes sense for them to produce as much as possible of the energy they consume by installing renewables technology;  positive incentives are always needed to nurture a new technologies.  The wealthy need every encouragement to convert to renewables, as do we all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the wealthy tend to consume most energy - therefore it makes sense for them to produce as much as possible of the energy they consume by installing renewables technology;  positive incentives are always needed to nurture a new technologies.  The wealthy need every encouragement to convert to renewables, as do we all.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The climate Budget betrayal by Roger Carthew</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/15/the-climate-budget-betrayal/#comment-5165</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Carthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 13:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=370#comment-5165</guid>
		<description>Climate Change has been touted as the greatest challenge facing human kind and the general populace now believes this. 

Given the need for speed in reducing CO2 emissions, it is reprehensible for the any government to lose an opportunity to assist households and/or businesses to reduce their carbon emissions.  What the alternative energy industry needs, is large scale uptake of their technologies, with which will come economies of scale, and ultimately lower prices per unit of energy produced.

Muddling the pursuit of social equity with the need to reduce carbon emissions will sadly come back to bite the very people the government is endeavouring to help and that is lower income earners.

The fast adoption of alternative energy technologies will and can be assisted by government policies that lowers costs for private enterprise. That is what all governments should be doing poste haste.

Don’t play with the future!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Climate Change has been touted as the greatest challenge facing human kind and the general populace now believes this. </p>
<p>Given the need for speed in reducing CO2 emissions, it is reprehensible for the any government to lose an opportunity to assist households and/or businesses to reduce their carbon emissions.  What the alternative energy industry needs, is large scale uptake of their technologies, with which will come economies of scale, and ultimately lower prices per unit of energy produced.</p>
<p>Muddling the pursuit of social equity with the need to reduce carbon emissions will sadly come back to bite the very people the government is endeavouring to help and that is lower income earners.</p>
<p>The fast adoption of alternative energy technologies will and can be assisted by government policies that lowers costs for private enterprise. That is what all governments should be doing poste haste.</p>
<p>Don’t play with the future!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Budget stuck in the past by philip travers</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/16/a-budget-stuck-in-the-past/#comment-5164</link>
		<dc:creator>philip travers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 13:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=373#comment-5164</guid>
		<description>It may have been better as a speech ,rather than in print,here! Surely even Christine Milne,knows ,if all the information that she presents is totally correct there is still the time element of reading...versus listening.Even though DavidIcke.com takes some exceptions to Greens now,InfoWars.com and other matters remain as sometimes alternative views.Tonight I had a look at... what the Bush administration has done to its war injured by privatisation of military matters,at a site on DavidIcke.com just shows how disgusting Bush is.New Dawn Magazine also points out a matter of major concern hidden in all the Monsanto agenda,with a Rockefeller imprint on it.The only useful word that sometimes seems to be regularily negated is EVIL!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may have been better as a speech ,rather than in print,here! Surely even Christine Milne,knows ,if all the information that she presents is totally correct there is still the time element of reading&#8230;versus listening.Even though DavidIcke.com takes some exceptions to Greens now,InfoWars.com and other matters remain as sometimes alternative views.Tonight I had a look at&#8230; what the Bush administration has done to its war injured by privatisation of military matters,at a site on DavidIcke.com just shows how disgusting Bush is.New Dawn Magazine also points out a matter of major concern hidden in all the Monsanto agenda,with a Rockefeller imprint on it.The only useful word that sometimes seems to be regularily negated is EVIL!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The climate Budget betrayal by mcfarm</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/15/the-climate-budget-betrayal/#comment-5161</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfarm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 10:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=370#comment-5161</guid>
		<description>Brenton, as I begin my second half century, I can confirm that student radicals, like cheeses and good red wine, improve with age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brenton, as I begin my second half century, I can confirm that student radicals, like cheeses and good red wine, improve with age.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arctic death watch by Concerned</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/16/arctic-death-watch/#comment-5159</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 09:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=375#comment-5159</guid>
		<description>Actually Sam we have such things.  They are called trees.

A really interesting idea (perhaps a bit challenging for Greens though) is selectively logging mature trees (that are no longer rapidly extracting CO2) and burying those trees about a metre below the ground.  At the right locations they have been shown to last thousands of years without decay in such conditions.  That may be enough time for earth systems to renormalise our CO2 levels, or some other solution to arise, assuming we decarbonise our civilisation soon.  

You can continue to grow forests from where you logged the now buried tree.  So the newly planted trees keep pumping CO2 out of the air and storing it as wood.  You can even bury the tree in the forest itself. 

The crux of it is you manage the forest (by selective logging) to ensure it is always operating at its maximum CO2 extraction rate.  

If a tree operates at maximum extraction rate for 30 years and the buried trees are sound for 3000 years, then you potentially get 100 times the total CO2 sequestration that would have been available from a steady state forest.

I wouldn't describe it as a silver bullet, just possibly one of the potential strategies to deploy within a larger suite.

PS:  If we do end up heading for an ice age, we can always dig up the fantastic resource of buried trees we squirrelled away and use them for firewood :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Sam we have such things.  They are called trees.</p>
<p>A really interesting idea (perhaps a bit challenging for Greens though) is selectively logging mature trees (that are no longer rapidly extracting CO2) and burying those trees about a metre below the ground.  At the right locations they have been shown to last thousands of years without decay in such conditions.  That may be enough time for earth systems to renormalise our CO2 levels, or some other solution to arise, assuming we decarbonise our civilisation soon.  </p>
<p>You can continue to grow forests from where you logged the now buried tree.  So the newly planted trees keep pumping CO2 out of the air and storing it as wood.  You can even bury the tree in the forest itself. </p>
<p>The crux of it is you manage the forest (by selective logging) to ensure it is always operating at its maximum CO2 extraction rate.  </p>
<p>If a tree operates at maximum extraction rate for 30 years and the buried trees are sound for 3000 years, then you potentially get 100 times the total CO2 sequestration that would have been available from a steady state forest.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t describe it as a silver bullet, just possibly one of the potential strategies to deploy within a larger suite.</p>
<p>PS:  If we do end up heading for an ice age, we can always dig up the fantastic resource of buried trees we squirrelled away and use them for firewood <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on The climate Budget betrayal by Brenton</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/15/the-climate-budget-betrayal/#comment-5158</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 09:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=370#comment-5158</guid>
		<description>11 mcfarm, I can assure you that not everyone over 48 is a conservative. As one ages I would hope that one becomes more radical!!!!!! Congratulations to all of the pensioners that got their gear off in protest at the Flinders Street Station today. Not only did they have their say and make their statement , but they also had impeccable taste as to their venue!!!!!
10 John Griffin, you have a LOT to say on Greensites!!!!!!
1. Are you a member of the Greens?
2. Do you donate to the Greens?
3. Do you even vote for the Greens?
4. I doubt all of the above very much indeed????
5. Probably, a Labor potplant ( as I call them!!!!!! )
6. How about working really hard, John, and doing something for the Greens?????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>11 mcfarm, I can assure you that not everyone over 48 is a conservative. As one ages I would hope that one becomes more radical!!!!!! Congratulations to all of the pensioners that got their gear off in protest at the Flinders Street Station today. Not only did they have their say and make their statement , but they also had impeccable taste as to their venue!!!!!<br />
10 John Griffin, you have a LOT to say on Greensites!!!!!!<br />
1. Are you a member of the Greens?<br />
2. Do you donate to the Greens?<br />
3. Do you even vote for the Greens?<br />
4. I doubt all of the above very much indeed????<br />
5. Probably, a Labor potplant ( as I call them!!!!!! )<br />
6. How about working really hard, John, and doing something for the Greens?????</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ban Junk Food Advertising by sinzss</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2007/10/31/ban-junk-food-advertising/#comment-5157</link>
		<dc:creator>sinzss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 09:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.org/2007/10/31/ban-junk-food-advertising/#comment-5157</guid>
		<description>I suggest that junk food  advestising must be banned in all countries worldwide it is harmful to people and especailly little kids who eat alot of junk food  at school they may have a chance of becoming obese and adults are the same .It is a waste of money to buy junk food and also some people may have many types of health promblems such as heart promblem,obesity,dealth and nutrion most people who eat alot of junk food have a highly chance of these incidents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest that junk food  advestising must be banned in all countries worldwide it is harmful to people and especailly little kids who eat alot of junk food  at school they may have a chance of becoming obese and adults are the same .It is a waste of money to buy junk food and also some people may have many types of health promblems such as heart promblem,obesity,dealth and nutrion most people who eat alot of junk food have a highly chance of these incidents.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arctic death watch by Sam Clifford</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/16/arctic-death-watch/#comment-5156</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 07:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=375#comment-5156</guid>
		<description>Countries like America and Russia will claim it's a boon for international shipping but they're probably not going to enjoy the climatic changes arising from the lack of reflection by the ice.

Once the ice is gone, it's going to be harder to stop runaway climate change; we all know this.

Perhaps we should start looking at projects which will actively suck carbon out of the air rather than reducing the amount we put in there.  Yes, we need to stop emitting which is why we need to switch to renewables for electricity and public transport over the car.  We also need to get as much carbon out of the air as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Countries like America and Russia will claim it&#8217;s a boon for international shipping but they&#8217;re probably not going to enjoy the climatic changes arising from the lack of reflection by the ice.</p>
<p>Once the ice is gone, it&#8217;s going to be harder to stop runaway climate change; we all know this.</p>
<p>Perhaps we should start looking at projects which will actively suck carbon out of the air rather than reducing the amount we put in there.  Yes, we need to stop emitting which is why we need to switch to renewables for electricity and public transport over the car.  We also need to get as much carbon out of the air as possible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The climate Budget betrayal by Bobo</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/15/the-climate-budget-betrayal/#comment-5154</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 07:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=370#comment-5154</guid>
		<description>Tim, its great to hear you are pushing for a climate fund!

Here's some thoughts I put out at LP regarding getting moving:

Garnaut’s further input isn’t actually required in order to make some first steps towards clean generation. Those first steps are so obvious that they will not undermine any plan by Garnaut and they aren’t even expensive in 2008.

All the government needs to do is announce a tender for proposals due by Nov-2008 to build say a 500MW clean generation plant fully operational by Dec-2012 where the tenderer is the ultimate plant owner. The various bidders can estimate the cost and indicate how much of that cost should be government funded and make a convincing case that they can build it, showing how they have selected sites and thought the process through. 

The government can then review the tenders and award a winner by say Feb-09 and start the process which will take a few years to complete. The drawdown of government funds will happen out till 2012 or so, in plenty of time for the future surpluses to meet the cost. The likely total government cost of the process out to 2012 is probably much less than $400M, with industry and financiers meeting the remaining cost (since they get to own the plant). 

The cost in 2008 is close enough to zero. The cost in 2009 is probably around $50M.

Such a process would teach us important things and enable faster future replication. The point is it is possible to embark on meaningful action now and take genuine steps in the right direction with what we have and know now.

Can anyone who wants urgent action honestly really rather wait until the ETS is running in 2010 and then start such a process (as the one above) two years later than we could have?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, its great to hear you are pushing for a climate fund!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s some thoughts I put out at LP regarding getting moving:</p>
<p>Garnaut’s further input isn’t actually required in order to make some first steps towards clean generation. Those first steps are so obvious that they will not undermine any plan by Garnaut and they aren’t even expensive in 2008.</p>
<p>All the government needs to do is announce a tender for proposals due by Nov-2008 to build say a 500MW clean generation plant fully operational by Dec-2012 where the tenderer is the ultimate plant owner. The various bidders can estimate the cost and indicate how much of that cost should be government funded and make a convincing case that they can build it, showing how they have selected sites and thought the process through. </p>
<p>The government can then review the tenders and award a winner by say Feb-09 and start the process which will take a few years to complete. The drawdown of government funds will happen out till 2012 or so, in plenty of time for the future surpluses to meet the cost. The likely total government cost of the process out to 2012 is probably much less than $400M, with industry and financiers meeting the remaining cost (since they get to own the plant). </p>
<p>The cost in 2008 is close enough to zero. The cost in 2009 is probably around $50M.</p>
<p>Such a process would teach us important things and enable faster future replication. The point is it is possible to embark on meaningful action now and take genuine steps in the right direction with what we have and know now.</p>
<p>Can anyone who wants urgent action honestly really rather wait until the ETS is running in 2010 and then start such a process (as the one above) two years later than we could have?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The climate Budget betrayal by Tim Hollo</title>
		<link>http://greensblog.org/2008/05/15/the-climate-budget-betrayal/#comment-5153</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Hollo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 06:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greensblog.wordpress.com/?p=370#comment-5153</guid>
		<description>Jovial Monk, the emissions in manufacture and disposal of PV are a small percentage of the savings over the lifetime of zero emissions electricity generation they provide. Depending on the technology, it is payback of 2-4 years, with a lifetime of 30 years.

Re your second point, we are. We are calling for a massive infrastructure fund on that level to fund renewables, efficiency, public transport, etc. Have a look at what Christine called for in her &lt;a href="http://greensblog.org/2008/05/16/a-budget-stuck-in-the-past/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Budget  Reply Speech&lt;/a&gt;.

Unfortunately, in current politics, the latter (which you call realistic) is actually unrealistic (it ain't gonna happen under this government), while the former (reinstating the solar rebate) is realistic (it just might). We work for both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jovial Monk, the emissions in manufacture and disposal of PV are a small percentage of the savings over the lifetime of zero emissions electricity generation they provide. Depending on the technology, it is payback of 2-4 years, with a lifetime of 30 years.</p>
<p>Re your second point, we are. We are calling for a massive infrastructure fund on that level to fund renewables, efficiency, public transport, etc. Have a look at what Christine called for in her <a href="http://greensblog.org/2008/05/16/a-budget-stuck-in-the-past/" rel="nofollow">Budget  Reply Speech</a>.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, in current politics, the latter (which you call realistic) is actually unrealistic (it ain&#8217;t gonna happen under this government), while the former (reinstating the solar rebate) is realistic (it just might). We work for both.</p>
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